According to the Partner Website shipping has started from 10 January. SUch a shame that it is only VO launch for the Partners, rather than an EVO launch - where's Exchange 2007 guys ???

Looks like I'm going to have to join TechNet after all - ho hum !!!

Hi David,

With the Action Pack, will the addition of Vista, remove the current licencing rights to XP - I heard this on a newsgroup and would be really pleased for your learned wisdom.  Or will we have 10 licences for XP and 10 for Vista?

I really don't want to migrate everything to Vista, since a couple of our clients still use LOB apps which only work on XP and I need to be able to troubleshoot their config on our inhouse demo box?

Cheers

Andrew

Thanks David, and welcome back from the break.

I am looking forward to migrating from RC2 to the final release, but I am concerned about how I can still support the XP clients I have.

It certainly seems that those (I guess in the US) whom have got the MAPS already are saying that once the current subscription expires and is renewed there will no provision for XP, nor downgrade rights.

Eric Ligman (MSFT)

http://blogs.msdn.com/mssmallbiz/archive/2007/01/12/do-i-have-downgrade-rights-for-my-software-that-comes-in-action-pack.aspx

I agree that we dont need downgrade rights, BUT we should be able to keep a hybrid of XP/Vista machines loaded for devel/support etc.  

Surely MS need to think real world here, everyone WILL one day move to Vista - and I will help push my customers and learners in this direction - however this needs to be a measured approach, and I heartily reconmend a TRANSITION period being applied - otherwise the pain is going to be just too great for many.

Even a clause in the EULA allowing dual use until the SP1 is released will be better than nothing, and really after the biggest software development project on the Earth and a guarranteed money spinner for MS, what is a bit more time?

Regards

Andrew

Hi David,

A transition period would be ideal.  It will hurt the most if MAPS is renewable for some customers in February of course - I think mine is May. Since then we have less than a year I guess.  Lets hope there is an addendum to the EULA to allow for this, but I am sure the legal team will take a while to put it into action.

Fingers crossed, and many thanks for your efforts.

Andrew

So let me get this straight, the shipment has been delayed because of the OPK which isn't included in the shipment?

The most disappointing element of the Jan pack is the fact that the Vista software is the upgrade only version and not the full product.  Hands up those of us who would rather do a clean install as opposed to an upgrade when given the choice!

I've kept up to date the arguments from MS re need to cut down on piracy and prevent unscrupulous MAPS subscribers flogging discs on ebay (which I totally support MS for clamping down on), but providing only an upgrade version for the majority of honest subscribers smacks of a "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" approach.

Now that each action pack install of Vista has its own product key, surely it would not be too much of a stretch for MS to tie in the product keys to MAPS ID numbers and hold that info for future reference. With this info MS should be able to track down individuals\companies tempted to illegally use\sell the software and deal with them accordingly.

Here's hoping MS has a rethink and reinstates the full Vista product version in April.  The argument of which version to provide I'll leave for another time!

Regards

Alastair

I'm confused by this "upgrade" thing with MAPS OS licensing. Our MAPS subscription (recently renewed) gave us 10 XP licences and 10 XP 64-bit licenses. Nobody has told us that these are now invalid. Does the switch from "full" to "upgrade" version have any impact on existing MAPS customers when they renew, or is it only brand new subscribers that are affected?

And, if we *are* affected (ie our full XP licenses are no longer legal) what's the recommended course of action?

- Roddy

I have my action pack now.

The Vista is upgrade only (10 licenses). But I did manage to get a clean install as I had XP Pro 64bit and the DVD is 32bit only.. So thats ok.

I only have one license for the Office 2007, or ateast only 1 key, I can't find any info as to whether it can be used more than once..

Hi David,

Just installing the upgrade now, and I type as I wait for my other work machine to upgrade.

Just some observations:-

-You need to boot to XP to fire up the upgrade

just having the DVD in a boot time and asking to boot from DVD does not work, and XP is loaded

-Upon choosing the upgrade, the option to upgrade (with all settings intact) is there and so is the advanced install option)

-I chose the advanced option as I wanted to re-partition the disk.  At this point there was no next, and the install advised that I should reboot with the DVD in the drive and select clean install.

-I duly rebooted, clicked any key to boot from DVD, and after a pause XP booted again.

It looks like the version we have been given is a pure upgrade and does not allow a clean install even after verifying the XP installation is present.

Perhaps someone else can verify this?

I don't really mind, since I know Vista will let me shrink the disk once installed and I hope to repartition the drive after the install :-)  (cool feature - but not sure why it seems restricted to 50% of the drive?)

Ok, all completed now, took about 50 mins.  No sign of the windows.old folder...

So, fairly painless really.

regards

Andrew

Does anyone know:

1.) If you upgrade Vista Business to Ultimate, does that leave you with 9 XP / Vista licences?

2.) Is the upgraded ($139.00) Ultimate version still subject to the subscription nature of the MSAP?

3.) Will the MSAP licenses (in general) ever really be "revoked" if you cancel your subscription?

Thanks,

Dan

It appears that MAPS team have confused everyone with the release of this Action Pack!

Windows Vista Business upgrade - I've got to jump through how many hoops to do clean install! I don't want remnants of XP screwing up my shiny new Vista install.

There was no roar because the VAST MAJORITY of Action Pack subscribers didn't know what versions of Office and Vista were being sent out until it was too late. In fact, many people didn't know until the Action Packs started to hit the doorstep! Hey we didn't know that a clean install would require a qualifying OS to be actually installed when the past scheme has only required a qualify OS CDROM be inserted at the requested moment.

Who exactly were the informed!?! Instead of asking for objectors only, it is essential to ensure polls are done that bring back acceptance messages as well as objections. Only then will you truly understand if the message is hitting the majority and you'll get the feedback you need to make an informed decision.

Dave, the backlash is now mounting as people get their Action Pack and realise the implications!

Hi David,

Following your advice it seems I was too eager to give up during the upgrade last night and did not select the partition to install the clean install onto... however this was not really what I wanted - I wanted to re-partition the disk first and then install.

I note that when only one partition is in the PC that this is not highlighted by default and therefore the next button is not selectable.  However on a multi partition machine, the Partition 1 is highlighted and the next option is available.

However my issue last night, and again now is the original point below:-

-I chose the advanced option as I wanted to re-partition the disk.  SNIP The install advised that I should reboot with the DVD in the drive and select clean install.

The prompt at the bottom of the install screen imdicates "to make changes to partitions, restart Windows from the installation disc."  

(a cancel or a reboot option here could be useful?)

The help screen here, also implies that you can choose a custom install to give a clean copy of Windows on a computer that does not have an O/S.  This I believed could not happen with an upgrade?

Ok, so I selected the partition, and then X'd the install, and rebooted.  Hit the key to boot from the DVD and, stood back in awe....it booted to the Vista install.  Selected the custom (since Upgrade was greyed out) and proceeded to repartition & format the disk, etc.  Proceeded all very sweet.

Just for a test, I cancelled the install after 10% and restarted.  Sure enough the drive had been formated and failed to load.  Insert the DVD and boot to the Vista installation, and hey presto.....clean install (from a PC that had just been completely formatted and rebooted.  The install was a lot quicker since there is no need to copy the whole Vista image to the HDD during install - it will simply expand the files needed direct to the shiny new hard drive.  

The above is just my observations, maybe there are still more mysteries to be uncovered?

Whatever.  I have been left with a mixed opinion by the process - "Strange".  Sure I learnt a hell of a lot - and I can pass this on during events and lessons.  I got there in the end, but I need to check why an upgrade DVD allowed me to format the HDD - since surely Vista has no way to verify the existence of the previous install, which defeats the objective of an upgrade :-)

Sorry David, but I think we have found some more questions for you to email the mothership with :-)

Andrew

I also HATE the thought of not being able to perform a fresh install.  Requiring a previous version CD is one thing, but having to install that first is another.

And it's not just the inconvenience of it - Windows has always worked best when installed clean and not over top an older version.

The last thing Microsoft should want is to taint our Vista experiences by forcing us to do a dirty install over XP.

David

The issue from my point of view is not that I'm able to do a clean Vista upgrade\install from the MAPs media, it's the ability to do a clean install without having:

a) the need for an OS to be previously installed on the disk! and

b) bloatware from a previous install "saved" in the new OS install.

The MAPs guys and galls need to realise that some of us do actually upgrade our hard disks now and again - some of us may even build a clean machine from scratch for internal\demo use :-0

Regards

Alastair

I'm afraid I shall stoke the clean install fire a little more.  I found the 'clean install' advnaced option to only be told none of the 3 partitions had enough free space and that I needed to boot the DVD to repartition.  On booting the DVD and entering the MAPS key I'm informed installation must take place in windows.  This leaves me no option but to reinstall XP before upgrading to Vista - fairly time consuming.  I have to say only getting an upgrade version is one disappoinment but then not having the ability install to a blank hard drive is another.  Do retial versions do the same?

Hi,

I just found this:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Looks like this will solve everyones problem!

Sheldon

I completely agree that what MS did here is asinine.  How many IT people (Read -  Action Pack Subscribers) have EVER done a Windows "Upgrade" (can you say, Sloppy? Dirty? Messy?)?  I know that I never have since using 3.1!  And I frequently wipe the partitions when I reinstall in case I want to do something new with multiple partitions.  Well, THAT option is now off the table without jumping through meaningless hoops!  I was so frustrated when trying to install Vista on my laptop where I had 2 partitions and needed to change the sizes for the install (Others have already described the endless loop of “Start install from existing Windows, Oh, you want to change partitions, boot from the DVD…” Boot from the DVD “Oh, you want to use this upgrade version, start the install from the existing install”…ARRGH!).  And what if I build a new machine and want to test on it (one of the purposes of subscribing to the Action Pack!!), well, I cannot do that now unless I install XP first and then UPGRADE.

Sorry, this was a stupid idea on the part of the MAPS team and I feel that they should immediately issue Full version license keys to AP subscribers.

I don't know about anyone else, but the first I heard about the contents of the Jan update, it said NOTHING about an upgrade version.  Then when I checked the update contents on the site a couple of weeks ago, it now says Upgrade version, which it NEVER said before.

Sorry to rant, but this is really aggravating.

Steve

I have just gone through setting up a partition, getting it working nicely then found myself in reduced functionality mode unable to activate using the action pack keys.  I called up and explained the situation and they said speak to the action pack people.  

I am so pissed at being given these upgrades and not having any capability to enter previous xp license keys or ANY other method to show eligibility to the upgrade.  As far as I am concerned, I am NOT renewing my action pack, and I will do what my customers are doing and moving to Mac.  I knew that windows would start being the monopolistic pain in the ass for all their paying customers and now that time has come... I am going to the apple store tomorrow and buying m